What’s all this about the Institute of Recruiters?

In the past week there has been quite a lot of talk about The Institute of Recruiters (IOR).  They aren’t officially launching until the end of the month but have been creating interest with their LinkedIn group. 

I thought I’d see what I could find out and had a chat with two of the founders; Dave Barber and Azmat Mohammed.  These are the notes from my conversation with them.  What I would like to point out is that the purpose of this blog post is to state what Dave and Azmat have told me not to give my personal opinion on institutes or associations or on any of the rumours that are abundant at present.  All that can come later!!

Overview of membership

The Institute of Recruiters is an international member organisation - owned by the members; standing for the representation of recruitment agency and HR/inhouse recruiters.  The IOR recognises that in-house corporate recruiters have a separate set of needs to agency recruiters so they cater for both differently, and they see their acknowledgement of this as a USP. 

Membership levels geared around qualifications taken.  The entrance exams are being worked on now and will be sanctioned by one of the Universities they are partnered with (Harvard is one they are talking about working with too).  

Any recruiter will be able to join initially as an affiliate.  By taking the entrance exam and then other qualifications they can move up to a Member then a Fellow of IOR. 

The focus for the IOR is going to be on continued professional development (CPD).  So once you become a Fellow you will need to attend relevant training/educational events to show that you are continuing to invest in your learning (they are calling these “qualification hours” which work towards maintaining your fellowship basis).

However, the focus of the IOR is not just around individuals.  There are also offerings for companies to become corporate members.

Corporate or individual members will be expected to abide by certain “rules” and these operating guidelines/standards will be revealed on the launch date.

In case you are interested, the IOR is a not for profit organisation.  They have international institute status and are currently going through the process for institute status in the UK. 

Why the IOR was created

Dave had been a regional director for the REC for a number of years so has previous hands on experience of working with an institute.  Dave and Azmat’s paths crossed and they felt there was an opportunity for another organisation to raise the standards in a more exclusive way.  Specifically to help the recruiters at the actual “coal face”. 

They also state (and I do love this!) that they want to make recruiting a more professional service than that “estate agent in the 80s” imagine.  Can’t fault that!.

The IOR’s board is largely made up with individuals from a corporate and agency recruitment background. 

They’ve already got nearly 3000 members to their LinkedIn group in the eight weeks it’s been launched; growing at a rate of 250 members a day and is officially the largest and fastest growing online community of any recruiting body in the UK.  As long as you are involved in the recruitment industry is some capacity you can join the group.

Why would you care?

I asked what affiliate members get on joining the IOR, however, we’ll have to wait until the 28th to find out!

What they would tell me is that if you join there are real tangible benefits…. but, again, they can’t talk about that right now.  Interestingly they mentioned a “second phase” which is where we will see a technical offering that is “probably the most radical the industry will ever see.  It will make businesses more profitable and cut thousands off costs”.  Apparently it’s something that no one else in the industry is thinking of it and will make people join The IOR in flocks and make them stay for years. Now that’s what I want to know about!!

They also talked about the promotion of recruitment qualifications and standards – but again we’ll have to wait until launch to hear more about that.

Overlap

I did ask about “overlap” our existing member organisations.  They didn’t deny the overlap but say that the IOR is offering a very different approach.  They state their vision is far beyond what we are used to.

The key elements are that “they are a group linking like minded individuals.  Secondly it’s sharing best practice from the HR side of the industry with the recruiter side with strong representation from the agency recruiters.  Plus their offerings are beyond what any other body offers…. and it’s international”.

Finally, they will have a Chairman who is apparently a well known name within the industry… but who is a secret at the moment.   They know how to build interest and create a buzz, that’s for sure!

I'm very keen to hear your comments!

Comments

[Steve Huxham]

No-one is surprised at the rate of growth of the LI group, not least because all the agency recruiters who are not REC members are barred from joining their group (a mind-numbingly foolish move by the REC) but curiosity alone does not create something credible.

I must admit I am surprised that someone of your experience Louise didn't publish a more uncritical article.

[Mitch Sullivan]

Based on what I've seen so far, the IOR is reinforcing recruitment's reputation for breathtaking stupidity, not improving it.

[Simon Lewis]

With a statement as bold as "The IOR will grow to be the premier Professional Recruitment Body in the UK" I do hope these are words backed by action and Dave isn't taking with him the dreadful apathy and archaic traits that made the REC such a joke.

Whether there really is room for another recruitment association pushing the same stuff is debatable. A random selection of passers by could be cobbled together with sufficient ease to do a better job than REC. On the contrary, my experiences of APSCO, with whom the IOR appears to be seeking to emulate - are very positive.

I agree with Steve that the IOR appears to be run by relative un-knowns and, despite Louise's protestations to the contrary, they will have to do a far better job of promoting the organisation than they have of publicising themselves.

Time will tell just how proactive this group is in achieving its mission statement but I shouldn't imagine Steve, Ann and other reputable recruitment figures, will be having restless nights just yet.

[Louise Triance]

Steve - In a nutshell I really don't know enough about them to write something more critical at this stage. If criticism is required I shall try to be up to the job when the time comes!

Mitch - I know I could be opening a can of worms here, but what do you see as their "breathtaking stupidity"?

Simon - Thanks for your comments. I agree that APSCo do a superb job. But I understand that many feel they are not inclusive enough.

[Alan Shaw]

MITCH SULLIVAN, saying the IOR is "reinforcing recruitment's reputation for breathtaking stupidity" without qualifying it with some substance is making you look stupid. It's not an intelligent comment from you Mitch as you have no substance in your post as Louise rightly points out. Can you write some intelligent with some qualification Mitch or am I asking too much here? I wish the IOR success and let’s see what they do when we have more to go on (as any intelligent person would do).

[Alan Shaw]

Steve Huxham, no idea who you are. Are you related to a rival I wonder? If I was a rival I would be worried too so I understand your position if that is the case! Do you have any recruitment society or group Steve? I ask as that would totally explain your dislike of the IOR, I have always hated sour grapes!

[Alan Shaw]

Simon, you have a quality post and I agree with you 100%. Let's wait and see what they do, being unknown could be good or bad, let's wait and see.

[Rob Willock]

Neither the rather press-releasy nature of this blog post nor the mud slinging that has followed are helping anyone get to the bottom of this organisation and its motives.
There are some very sensible doubts being raised about the IoR, not least its tendency towards the censorship of any questions being posed within the Linked In group about its motives and its legitimacy.
Surely the IoR's administrators (and incidentally there are also aspersions being cast about their identities) would better serve their own ambitions if they tackled these questions head on instead of deleting them.
The IoR won't help the recruitment industry to shake off its '80s Estate Agent' reputation if it engages in shady practices itself.

[Louise Triance]

Adam - Steve Huxham is Chair of the Recruitment Society. Maybe you've not heard of them but they have been around for quite some time!

Rob - Sorry about the "press-releasy" blog post! It's only a starting point to further investigate the IOR once we can find out more about the Institute.
I too have heard about the censorship of questions but believe they are now attempting to be more open. If you have specific examples please post them here. I'm not going to defend them but I hear rumours all the time and ones about the IOR are no different.
Do have to say that I totally agree with your last sentence: "The IoR won't help the recruitment industry to shake off its '80s Estate Agent' reputation if it engages in shady practices itself". But right now it's only an "if".

[Alan Shaw]

Rob, if people don’t like what they offer then they have a choice not to join! People can make up their own minds. From Mr Huxham's post (thanks for the info on who he is Louise, being around for quite a while is not a credential, my back pain has been around for a while). He just seems to be having a go or whinging, if they are not good people will not join, simple. I don’t like current stuff out there, let’s give these new boys a chance.

[Stephenodonn]

I've been observing the rapid emergence of this group with interest. I too spoke with Dave Barber earlier in the week.
It will indeed be interesting to see where this goes, and it would be all too easy to be critical of the motives of the founders, and wary of committing to something in it's very early stages.

What can be said for sure is this. With so many members joining the Linkedin group so quickly, there is clearly an appetite for a body of this kind. It must be extremely concerning to the REC, who have been bleeding individual members (I believe) since the ill-judged rebranding of recruiters to IRP's. I myself refused to renew my FREC when it was switched to FIRP. A conservative estimate is that this is evidence of at least £100,000 in membership fees that the REC are not in receipt of.

I'll continue to watch closely, and would would be keen to influence the direction of this body, as should all recruiters. Whether it succeeds in it's declared aims will of course be down to the decisions it takes right now, and whatever credibility can be established.

New bodies can be established by anybody at any time. However to be truly representative, they need to be as inclusive as possible, and operate with the assent of a majority in the industry. Any body only representing a small minority (such as the REC) can easily be dismissed as irrelevant.

Stephen O'Donnell 1Job, AlljobsUK, NORAs

[Stephenodonn]

PS. Does anyone know how many individual members of the REC there are?

[Alan Shaw]

Louise, I noticed you have removed my comment about how ridiculous I thought it was that Steve Huxham calls himself a ‘Thought Leader’ on his profile. If that is the case then please remove his 1st comment in which he slates the IOR as it has no basis and is a baseless allegation. Same goes for the comment from Mitch, baseless. These comments are amount to liable against the IOR and you only delete mine?

[Louise Triance]

Adam - I left your first post about Steve Huxham. However, you second comment was not in keeping with the type of content I want on my blog. I'm sure you will find other forums allow you to insult inviduals directly, however, this one doesn't.
I hope you understand why I might take this position.

[Lewis Stovin]

"With so many members joining the Linkedin group so quickly, there is clearly an appetite for a body of this kind"

Not so sure. I think at this stage it's a case of express interest so you know whats going on. If it comes to recruiters parting with hard earned cash for membership fees thats another story. At that point they will want to know exactly what they are getting for their money.

But its far to early to
say if yet another organisation of this kind would be of any value. For some reason they dont want to say who else is involved behind the scenes or give details about this great technical innovation they say is next on the table that is really going to help members.

I think until all the facts are available its a bit of a non event for now however, i do have to give credit for creating interest based on next to nothing.

LS

[Alan Whitford]

Hi Louise
Thank you for reporting on the IOR. For those readers/commentators who do not undersand that sentence, please read it again. Louise Reported on an interview and discussion with the founders of IOR, which she stated clearly at the beginning of her blog post. Perhaps many of the comments are from those who do not understand the responsibility of a news information portal - we have to draw a fine line between reporting what we are told/given -and expressing our own personal opinion. In this case, Louise made it abundantly clear that this was a report, and that her analsis/opinions would come later.

At such time as the IOR really shares its goals, aspiration, financial model(s) and true benefits for membership, we can then make informed and measured comment/criticism/praise.

Cheers to all

Alan

[Steve Huxham]

@Alan Shaw. I'm pleased to say
that I don't suffer from sour grapes or back pain.

When I have a go, I do hope that it is based on my own experiences and those of other reputable people, as it is here. This is a topic that has been extensively covered in our own LinkedIn group, so I'm sure Louise won't thank me for repeating it all here.

For your own background reading though, I would suggest you take a look at what the possible penalties are for people who use a protected word like Institute without full permission from the Govt.

[Mitch Sullivan]

First of all, my comments were based on first-hand experience of the chancers running the IOR, not Louise's article - although I have to say it read more like a press-release.

Secondly, to answer the request from 'Alan Shaw'for some basis for my suggesting that those behind the IOR are probably a bit stupid:

They hit the phones before the group or their 'Institute' even got off the ground, hard-selling people into joining their so-called 'advisory board'.

They moderate all comments on their group. Anything they don't like, doesn't appear.

They ban people for asking polite questions.

They send PMs to people masquerading as customer service staff and, inexplicably using pictures of attractive females.

That last one is monumentally stupid, in anyone's book.

Please also note that these observations are based on my personal experience of them as the self-titled Institute Of Recruiters rather than in their previous incarnations as R2R recruiters.

One thing I have learnt, especially during the 'new-frontier age' of the Internet, is to be very suspicious of people who make big claims and then start trying to censor people who questions those claims.

[Alan Shaw]

Hi Mitch, on Steve Huxham's site (which I have now looked at) it says his society is "THE UK professional Membership body", that is quite a claim as not many have heard of it. Do you agree with that? Also, his profile says he is a thought leader, are you led by his thinking? I have to say it sounds a little like you want to attack this organisation all the time. If you dont want to join, then fine, why do you keep attacking them and those who support them? Is this personal or are you guys (who seem to post on the same day within mins of each other???) out to destroy people and other organisations that compete with the REC? What have you achieved in your life Mitch? Anything of note? Are you a respected authority on recruitment matters in some way? Have you both got so little else to do?

[Alan Shaw]

I would just like to say one more thing to all readers, if the IOR or those behind it were "chancers" as Mitch alleges, both Mitch and Steve would never dovote this mutch time to attacking them. Make up your own mind....

[Alan Shaw]

Hi Louise, I notice this story has a lot of comments, is this the normal amount or quite high for a typical story? Can we gauge anything from the number of comments? Please advise.

[TheHRD]

Alan - From this I think we can gauge you have made 8 comments...

Just a question....have you got any connection with IoR?

Love Theo x

[Alan Shaw]

Hi Theo, No but these two (steve and Mitch) have wound me up, I dont like the REC and I dont like people who have a go like these 2 (Mitch and Steve). From what I can gather, these 2 (mitch and Steve) work from their homes? Is the recruitment society, 'THE UK society' ruuning from the HQ of Steve's front room? Is that the case? If so then the claims on the website are breath taking! Also, who is the woman on the your website steve, I take it she works for you and not a fake woman? Can you please clarify given the accusation from Mitch. I await your response Steve as to who she really is.

[TheHRD]

So what do you do Alan?

Just for full and open disclosure....?

(says the anonymous blogger)

Theo

[Alan Shaw]

I am in debt management. Can I ask Theo, you have not expressed your view on the above comments, where do you stand exactly?

[Mitch Sullivan]

Watching 'Alan Shaw' post here reminds me of the 3 year old boy that sits in the middle of a room with his eyes closed, believing that no one can see him.

'Alan', why don't you use your real name?

BTW ...this is a perfect example of what I meant by 'stupid' earlier.

[BobbyNunn]

Amazing. "Alan Shaw" is in debt management, but is getting really rather hot under the collar about a LI group for recruiters.

Hats off to them though, 3000 members already, that's some going! It's intriguing, and I for one can't wait for this story to unfold.

[BobbyNunn]

Haha - I see they've taken Sam's photo down.

I posted the same link on the HRD blog yesterday!!

Hmmmmmmm!!

[Brad Olson]

So are we saying if you have a pretty picture on your profile you get all these people joining your group? Women in senior HR positions join too? All because of a profile with a pretty pic? No wonder sky sports and virgin airlaine have pretty girls. So all these 3000, women incuded join any group they with pretty women in it? So are the people who joined the group all predetors who chase women?

[Sally Carter]

Why would you join a group because the profile had a pretty girl on it or a model? Model agency groups on linkedin don't grow at this rate. Why then are they joining? It can't be the images really can it?

[Sally Carter]

Bobby, why don't all the people in this group join porn sites? Or model agency sites Bobby? Are you saying people in the group are just a bunch of sex crazed people chasing after 'Sam's picture? Is that what u think?

[Sally Carter]

Unlike Alan, I am happy to declare I know one of the newly appointed IoR Regional Directors personally and she is really happy to be involved. I can get answers if you want and post here, as long as the questions are decent!!!! They are very reputable. I know the agency who is supplying the off site staff who support the linkedin group and its a separate company altogether on a contract. I know they have an amazing chairman. I now its a real institute. I know they have a fantastic IoR head of education as my partner got her IoR briefing pack today as all RDs did. I am not mentioning her name as you are posting unkind things on here so I have declared my interest so thats pretty fair I think. I also know its international and I know they are planning launches in 5 countries including a main office in Brussels with people on serious committees that make EU law! I know they are charging less than the REC. I Know they have technology that state of the art. I know they have very smart people involved. I know incumbents are worries, I mean really worried. Apparently, the REC are having board level meetings about it and consider the IoR the first and only credible threat they have had in years. I know Steve Huxham is not best pleased and will do anything to stop them (read his posts), I mean anything. I know they are the real deal. Its a first and hard to believe I know, but my god, this will change things.

[Sally Carter]

More about the IOR.

All this stuff about profile pics is not a big deal, it was not even the IOR, that is why I got angry as you were missing that crucial point, the linkedin group staff are from another company so to me that is put to bed.

Here is something interesting though, it’s being reported more and more, have you read that people are complaining that the IOR removed them from the group? Its not by accident! The group has strict rules, to discuss geneal recruitment matters and by setting the rules they avoid good discussions being distracted by issues like profiles pics, so fair enough, I understand why the group rules are in place. But here is the kicker, have you also read that many recruiters think other recruiters are just unprofessional and dont want anything to do with them right? They think a large number are unprofessional with no clue and just set up as recruitment consultants right? Its a bug bear of recruiters for years. Well, the IOR are (without exception) ejecting anyone from the group and the institute anyone who can’t follow rules, thus leaving within the IOR a group with ethics, ability to follow rules and protocol etc. They only want the professionals. The REC allow you to be a fellow or members depending on what you pay right, so as a professional you get the same letters after your name as a rogue. The IOR does not care for the fees, they will throw you own for any disrespect of rules, and ou can’t buy an IOR membership or fellowship, you have to pass exams set by the IOR education director who is a published barrister! Wow, now you see why the group is growing and why we all like it, finaly we seperate ourselves from the crap! Also, you remember when HAYS were ‘naughty’ and the REC (Recruitement’s Estate agents & Con artists) did nothing as they dont want to lose the fees!!! Well, the IOR would have kicked their rears out, fees or no fees! Now you see what this is about, they dont car how big the company you work for, how much money you have, how long you have been around, how respected you are, cross the line and expect to bebooted out ofr the IOR, no questions asked. All the people complaining (and I guess the list will grow) are a sign, they are the ones booted out, they are the ones I can finally distance myself from, they can stay in the REC while the professionals jump ship t the IOR. Finally, this is what we have been waiting for, I can distance myself (as an IOR member or Fellow) from rogue REC members! YES!!!!!!!!

[Matt Alder]

Dear Sally, SC, Brad and Alan

Lets face it you're the same person. So basically you are saying that raising a question that isn't quite what the group organisers would like makes you unethical. The very reasonable comment I left on the group was moderated out so presumably that applies to me? Perhaps you could help me and refer me to the list of rules within the group because I can't find them.
I'll also intrigued that you think the IOR aren't responsible for the fake help desk accounts (which by the way break LinkedIn's terms and conditions) because they outsourced it to another company. You have a very interesting definition of responsibility.

Before you accuse me of having an axe to grind I really don't, I'm neither a member of the REC or the Recruitment Society. However I do have an interest in promoting the professional use of social media by recruiters and what I'm seeing so far is a long way from professional

[BobbyNunn]

Hi Sally,

I think you've completely missed the point.

But in short - what Matt says ^ !

Oh, and I take it your are the "SC" on The_HRD blog as well?

Thanks
Rob

[BobbyNunn]

Hi Sally - again,

Are you also the Sally who posted on The RecruiterGal's blog - http://recruitgal.posterous.com/what-is-the-ior - you're a charmer aren't you!?

Please please please can you also be the "Sally Carter" who is a Director at "ChinChinjobs.com" (http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/sally-carter/22/993/b05) - a specialist drinks industry jobsite! I'm sure Pepsi would love to use you!

In all seriousness - you would do less harm by just saying nothing.

Rob

[Katie McNab]

The debate on the legitimacy of the IOR has deteriorated to the point where personal attacks are being freely hurled around.

I would urge the IOR and those representing them to raise the tone of their online discussions. For a group that wants to improve professionalism and quality in the recruitment industry, attacking people that ask you questions is not helpful to your cause and damages your credibility beyond measure.

Some of the people that have been dragged into this debate are big players in the recruitment world and could have been great champions if approached with honesty and transparency. Instead, your approach has raised more questions than answers – and the manner in which your “representatives” have conducted themselves has done little to endear you to a group of potentially influential people.

I don’t think it is too late to recover this situation, but you’ll need to change tactics – and quickly.

[Alan Whitford]

Katie makes a very good point.

It seems that much of the debate engendered by Louise's original post has not included the founders or employees of IOR. (again, this was a reported interview, not a 'puff' piece or a comment piece by Louise)

It would be highly helpful to the debate if the individuals shared their own views. I have had a phone conversation with one of the two founders, and am expecting further conversations - this will enable me to make an informed decision about the aims/goals and impact of the organisation. I am happy to share those thoughts, either here or in a direct conversation with anyone who cares to reach out.

[Dave Barber]

IOR Statement: 23rd February 2011 | For Immediate Release.

We are currently working very hard with various recruitment and HR heavyweights to bring to you a compelling offering. As of today, the IOR LinkedIn group is thriving as the largest of its kind in the UK.

In response to questions regarding the IOR and its contracted parties with whom it contracts in good faith we are happy to confirm:

Q. Has the IOR been registered?
A. Yes indeed with a US HQ and other chapters being filed and ongoing, including the UK.

Q. How do you register an institute?
A. We are not in a position to offer legal company formation advice, that is not our place, we use professional law firms to support us, if you need such advice then I would refer you to the legal profession.

Q. Various Blog Comments.
A. The IOR is not involved, responsible for nor associated with any commenting on the various blogs. Its communication is via IOR official statements, the official website, the Institute of Recruiters LinkedIn group and other IOR social medial channels only.

Q. Online Profiles
A. Any individuals, either employed by the IOR or its channel partners, found to be damaging the IOR brand or its integrity will have their contracts terminated with immediate effect and further legal action taken without hesitation if appropriate.

The IOR values honesty and integrity and aims to be the predominant professional body for recruiters internationally.

Azmat Mohammed
IOR Director | ICT & Operations

[Mark Wallace]

Good stuff.

[Mark Wallace]

Hi All,

The word 'Society' is also a protected word at companies house. Does the Recruitment Society have permission to use this word and can that be demonstrated - Steve Huxham, please advise?

I ask as you can not use the word 'Society' even for a day without permission and if you look at companies house it is not registered to Steve Huxham.

Also, what is the legal entity of the Recruitment Society? There is no reference at companies house or on the website whatever, can anyone confirm?

Mark

[Sharpehunter]

The IOR linkedin group has done absolutely nothing to enhance the case of the recruitment industry, if you follow most of the discussions it is just petty in-fighting, opinionated random rubbish and either recruiters or clients beating each other up!

On a more important note however, the bogus profiles and profile pictures - namely Sam Andrews, Helen Davies and Louise Hart are cringeworthy!

I suspect that this whole thing is some kind of scam geared to accrue a lot of money quickly!

Are you seriously expecting me to believe that Harvard are going to endorse this! Ha!

[Andyheadworth]

I have now read all the comments on all the aforementioned blogs.

The concept of a new trade association is a good one, as it would breathe life into our industry. Now I am not saying the IoR is the one, but equally I am not saying it isn't.

My problem with this whole conversation is that it has become focused on the misinformation, hype and various slanging matches, driven by some very bad advice and blog commenting activity from whichever PR firm Sally, SC, Brad and Alan (obviously all the same person) work for.

If the IoR had simply put a pre-launch statement (not too long before launch), opened their LinkedIn group (as they did) and provided regular updates,then most people would have accepted that.

But to hide behind moderation, not answer reasonable questions from genuinely interested parties, and employ a misguided and highly unprofessional PR firm (if indeed they are a real PR firm) has really shot them in the foot before they started.

I couldn't give a stuff whether they have a good or bad offering - until we actually see what it is. My first impressions are now tainted with negativity and scepticism........which is surely not the best way to start engaging with prospective members is it?

NOTE TO AZMAT: If you actually think we all believe your statement "The IOR is not involved, responsible for nor associated with any commenting on the various blogs" then you are very sadly mistaken. They are so obviously connected to your company/society/organisation/association that is makes it laughable to say otherwise.

Accept that you made a mistake with Rod, Jane and Freddy (or whatever they are called) and terminate their contract- they have done you more harm than good.

[Matt Alder]

I won't repeat what anyone else had said but the key thing for me round all of this is the LinkedIn group. Using fake profiles is misrepresentation and goes against LinkedIn's terms and conditions. I struggle with the fact that the IOR talks about ethics and best practice but at same is blatantly flouting the rules of one of the key tools recruiters use

[Tristan Greaves]

I think the best thing about the IOR website is how, despite allegedly being put together by some top web design agency, it is just a big JPG image stuck onto a page. Classy.

[Tristan Greaves]

I think the best thing about the IOR website is how, despite allegedly being put together by some top web design agency, it is just a big JPG image stuck onto a page. Classy.

[BobbyNunn]

I do have to credit Peter (commented above) with this find, but the original IOR, is in fact the "Institute of Refrigeration" - http://www.ior.org.uk/

Brilliant!

[Peter Hetherington]

...proud partners of the ACHPI: Air Conditioning and Heat Pump Institute.

Good news everyone, you can now title yourself 'MIOR' simply by submitting an essay on the relative value benefits of the new Smeg fridge-freezer.

[BobbyNunn]

Well - it seems I've asked one question too many. I sent an email to Dave Barber regarding the fake accounts as well as suggesting he address some of the issues arising from this and other blogs.

I received no answer, but have now been kicked off the group.

You must all tell me if the IOR turn out to be the answer to everyone's problems, ok??

[Jeremy Thornton]

Just seen this:

Institute of Recruiters announces new advisory boardThe Chief Executive & Editor in Chief of Executive Grapevine has been appointed as a Partner at a newly launched professional body for recruiters in the UK.

Helen Fish, an independent commentator and advisor within the recruitment industry, will be joining the Institute of Recruiters (IOR), an association in the UK, which aims to bring together HR experts and recruiters internationally.

Fish brings to the new role a wealth of experience in the executive search arena. She regularly advises business leaders and consultants on key strategic issues in the talent management industry. Fish is also co-author of The UK’s Retained Executive Search Industry Report and The Global Directory of Executive Recruiters.

The IOR is headquartered in the US with a local virtual presence in two different countries, including the UK. The professional body for recruiters in the UK will be negotiating deals for members, lobbying regulators and offering professional training and advice. Fish will be working alongside the company and other industry heavyweights to help raise standards in the unregulated recruiting sector.

Commenting on the appointment, Azmat Mohammed, Co-Founder of the IOR, says: “Helen lends her expertise to the organisation to help shape the offering and define the standards of members and best practice. We promote Helen to the membership as a pioneer in this industry and a pioneer of best practice.”

Discussing her contribution to the IOR, Fish adds: “Executive Grapevine is committed to raising standards across the recruitment industry. We are continually working to encourage consultants in their partnerships with clients to combine a proactive approach to talent acquisition, with creative thinking to enable real value to be added to the recruitment process. We will support the IOR to help raise standards within the industry.”

[Matt Alder]

Just wanted to say thanks to the IOR who have also just kicked me out of their Linkedin group. How did you guess I didn't want to stay in a group where asking reasonable questions is banned

[Matt Alder]

Here is the LinkedIn user agreement:

http://www.linkedin.com/static?key=user_agreement&trk=hb_ft_userag

I'd like to draw the IOR to point 7 "Termination" paragraph B "Misuse of services" - "Misuse of the Services includes...creating multiple or false profiles"

[Carl, a professional recruiter]

All I can say is the people posting on this site are children! No professional would act this way. You are a disgrace. These posts show this is an industry full of people with low conduct and low standards. Solicitors, Doctors, Accountants would never write like this. You are all a lifetime away from being considered professional, no chance!!!

[@BillBoorman]

Louise,
This must be the most commented blog you have written. With REC, APSCO and ARC we already have enough trade bodies whatever their merits or motives. interestingly, when I was courted to join the board of the IOR, I was advised that Steve Huxham had already signed up! (Don't worry steve, I didn't buy in to that!). I know the recruitment guru Dave barber from a previous job. I had several long conversations with Azzmet and recieved a few e-mails (and a contract of sorts) on the subject. I have also been questioned, attacked and accused of lying on another blog. i wish anyone well in launching a new business. They might like to think their PR strategy though if they are to make any headway!give us some facts and some openess. if you have high profile industry figures signed up, share who they are!
Bill

[BobbyNunn]

Seems the debate is continuing over on the grapevine's blog - http://www.thegrapevinemagazine.com/index.php?newsid=3714#comments

Yours,
Rob - aged 7 and 3/4

[James Mayes]

I've got no history with anyone involved in the IoR, nor have I had any direct contact with them. What I see so far:
- A fast-growing group on LinkedIn, suggesting a decent level of market interest
- A website that offers no details, with press releases which are lightweight at best
- An approach to Social Media which appears to favour either no engagement (Twitter) or heavily moderated engagement (LinkedIn)
- The emergence of several fake profiles both on blogs and on LinkedIn

So where does my interest lie now? Mostly thinking that this is pointless and / or a wasted opportunity. The industry has a number of professional bodies at the moment, but the rush to the new LinkedIn Group suggests there are a decent number of people who do not feel adequately catered for.

However, the IoR already has too many questions surrounding it's methods, formation, registration and, in some posts I've seen, legality. When wishing to raise the game, this is not, in any way, a sound foundation to build on.

As a certain Dragon might say "If you think I'm going to waste my children's inheritance on this joke, you're funnier than your own PR. I'm out".

[Alconcalcia]

Brian: Excuse me. Are you the Judean People's Front?
Reg: Fuck off! We're the People's Front of Judea

[Sara]

Also posted on the HRD's blog (awaiting moderation):

"These responses are actually a little bit freaky – it’s all a bit cultish for a supposed professional body… (cue the hysterical response from one of the IoR cronies).

I’m not a recruiter (although I work closely with the recruitment industry) and am not part of any kind of recruitment organisation, but I can smell cult a mile away. Here are some of the hallmarks:

- BIG promises (usually of an unrealistic nature)
- Flawed leaders with a dodgy past who call themselves ‘visionaries’
- Claiming not to be like any other organisation (or religion)
- Claiming to be a religion when they’re not (or an institute)
- Censorship of any questions or comments that may cast them in an unfavourable light
- Use of pretty models as opposed to real people to lure in customers / devotees
- Aggressive and unhinged debate tactics when challenged publically
- Charging people money for something they don’t need

All they need to do now is threaten to sue you, and anyone else who’s dared to criticise or question them, and there you have it folks – a full blown cult."

[Peter Hetherington]

So IOR are 'formed' as Institute of Recruiters LLC in the US state of Delaware (despite no Delaware based founders/directors to my knowledge).

I made a request of the Delaware Secretary of State’s office as I was interested to understand what formation of an LLC is involved. The result may be of interest, and should concern interested parties in the UK:

"This entity is an LLC (not a corporation).

There are no "directors" of LLC's under DE law. There are only "members" who may also hold positions as officers (Secretary, Treasurer, etc.). And, DE does not require any annual reporting for LLC's. They are only required to pay an annual fee to maintain their good standing status."

In effect, Institute of Recruiters LLC has no more standing than an amateur club or society, and has no oversight or scrutiny from any competent authority, neither are any accounts required to be filed anywhere. I suspect this further detracts heavily from the IOR’s credibility as an organisation attempting to trade as an Institute in the UK.

[Alan Whitford]

Rob
The Grapevine link returns 404 error, content not found. Nor is there any reference to the press release.

[Rob]

I guess Helen Fish did a little more research and decided that it wasn't such a good idea to be associated with the IOR.

[JT]

I think this is all turning into a very weird situation where everybody is acting out of character.

I was a member of both groups and I had an email that was flying around about the recruitment society. All I did was ask the question, "what is the legal trading entity of the recruitment society, is it limited, is is a company trading as the recruitment society?" and I was immediately kicked out of Linked In the group by Steve Huxham and co. Can we not ask these questions anymore? What is going on here?

[BobbyNunn]

Thats a better try JT - at least you link to a profile. Still anonymous though - and quite frankly, not fooling anyone.

Lets be honest, the only people "acting out of character" are those of you with no identity - but as we don't know your character we can't really tell if you're acting out of it!

[Jack Barton]

Hi Jack,

As you are a recruiter I thought you may be interested in the Institute of Recruiters (IOR)?

The IOR LinkedIn Group is the largest and fastest growing of any recruiting body in the UK!

Join by clicking here:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?mostPopular=&gid=3717538

Hope it’s of interest.
Louise x

I wonder how many recruiters have joined because of the little kiss at the end. Probably loads.